tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5846567313402731847.post1790364073970575069..comments2024-01-08T12:37:24.482-08:00Comments on Living Armstrongism: Watching Geert Wilders' Film, Fitna (2008)Redfox712http://www.blogger.com/profile/17734930967002040931noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5846567313402731847.post-8811026650858707002017-03-21T23:44:42.390-07:002017-03-21T23:44:42.390-07:00True! It is not informative. Only PBS deals with i...True! It is not informative. Only PBS deals with informative information.<br />Real information is considered overrated though.<br /><br />I mean, simple informative advice to Rosa Parks would be that to get from A to B one could wait for the next bus stopping every hour.<br /><br />I can imagine Dickens writing about the crazy professor at Hyde Park's corner, telling the 19th century crowds that there is no linguistic connection between BRth and British and therefore they cannot be the chosen people. While at the Zenith of their power "the evidence of that providence" is all around, for blind to see.<br /><br />When watching the "duck and cover" reels I could be overwhelmed with a sense of nostalgia seeing the 1950's clothing, hairstyles and naivity of the kids........ hiding for the bomb.<br /><br />But I guess that is not the point.<br /><br />(Just poking a little fun Hoss)<br /><br />nck nckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5846567313402731847.post-61132427705360376922017-03-21T19:00:46.207-07:002017-03-21T19:00:46.207-07:00Last night I watched Fitna and had no trouble slee...Last night I watched Fitna and had no trouble sleeping. You're right, it wasn't informative, and was simply made to reinforce Islamophobic fears.<br />I think it would be like portraying Christianity as a fear and vengeful religion with a montage of the worst COG sermons.Hosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13285219921252563944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5846567313402731847.post-62251517491416731542017-03-18T06:23:04.302-07:002017-03-18T06:23:04.302-07:00Wahabism is not only a threat to western democraci...Wahabism is not only a threat to western democracies. It is a worldwide phenomenon which also appalled my sri lankan budhist driver, driving through "all black" villages that in his youth were mixed colorful villages with many cultures living side by side. <br /><br />It is a shame the USA sought Saudi Arabic sponsoring of the war against the Soviets in Afghanistan. "freedom fighters" like bin laden or the 19 saudi hijackers in new york were a direct result of this "co operation". And I heard this connection directly from the mouth of prince Bandar bin Sultan.<br /><br />ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5846567313402731847.post-2608797542355166602017-03-18T06:11:13.114-07:002017-03-18T06:11:13.114-07:00Well,
thank you for your kind, understanding and...Well, <br /><br />thank you for your kind, understanding and interesting commentary.<br /><br />Yes, I do care very much for liberal democracy. I have seen it swept away several times under the disguise of "freedom or liberation."<br /><br />You are right that many muslims are adapting to a more western way of living. And as goes for the chinese more wealth almost immediately means the choice for fewer off spring. <br /><br />My comments mirror somewhat the 19th century concerns of americans with the large influx of catholic irish and italians immigrants. The question of loyalty to a foreign head of state (the pope) was raised.<br /><br />The same goes for multiple "nationalities and passports" of the muslims. Yes modern muslims tend to be more individualistic and materialistic and tend to go the way of the christians. <br /><br />However from a religious perspective a call upon the Ummah would be a valid call and in conservative islam they do not distinghuish between state and religion (just like whenever three of you are present it is a church and the land is muslem/). Just like a call to jihad which is binding for all muslims regardless of "state" or passport if the situation warrants it according to muslim legal interpretation.<br /><br />So my hopes are that a "new liberal islam" will emerge from the experience of millions of muslims in western countries. Western democracies will have a serious problem if a situation arises in which a call on their common loyalty to the ummah is perpetrated by wahabi arab clerics who have sponsored all the mosques in Europe.<br /><br />Common people know close to nothing about the finesses of their religion. This goes for catholics and muslims alike. As a matter of fact most turkish and morrocan parents in Europe are very satisfied to see their children go to the friday prayer but are truly appalled by seeing them return in black clothing and interpretations that have nothing to do with the religion of their particular cultural heritage but everything with the conservative arabian wahabi interpretation. Which frankly is islamic fascism. I hear old Yemenite people in colorful clothing complain about the conservatism and black robes of their children. This is because of the undue influence of wahabism from saudi arabia or islamic fascism and all islamic cultures are suffering from it and their widespread influence over the internet.<br /><br />Let's pray their grip on European muslims will diminish over time and they can have their religion develop into moderation that is satisfying to any diety.<br /><br />nck<br /><br />nckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5846567313402731847.post-74277965090078195322017-03-18T04:43:07.715-07:002017-03-18T04:43:07.715-07:00It is so unfortunate and tragic that there is hatr...It is so unfortunate and tragic that there is hatred out there. There is nothing inevitable about any of it. May peace soon come.Redfox712https://www.blogger.com/profile/17734930967002040931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5846567313402731847.post-78024685897514885332017-03-18T04:41:28.264-07:002017-03-18T04:41:28.264-07:00nck,
Thank you for your comments. The fact that y...nck,<br /><br />Thank you for your comments. The fact that you wrote this out shows that you care about this topic.<br /><br />I had heard about <i>Fitna</i> before but I was not interested in watching it until recently. After watching it I am persuaded that it does present matters in quite a slanted and misleading manner.<br /><br />As for Wilders needing constant protection because of death threats I find that very sad and unfortunate and wish he did not have to endure that. I abhor violence. I wish that all law abiding persons live in peace and security. Actually even before <i>Fitna</i> was released death threats were made agaist him according to Dave Hunt in his 2006 book, <i>Judgment Day</i>.<br /><br />As for Muslims viewing privately owned land in Europe as making it Muslim land I suspect only a minority of Muslims would view things that way. And even if some Muslims do view it that way how could they enforce such a view if the nation's government choose to disregard it? If the nation's government do not adhere to such views I fail to see how such views could be enacted.<br /><br />As for Erdoğan's call for Turks in Europe to have five children I think about the parents. Would they really just decide to have more children and assume the personal and economic burden that entails simply because Erdoğan told them to do so? That seems hard to believe. These decisions are quite personal and it can be so difficult to determine what is happening regarding their birth rate. Also perhaps that comment is more about convincing Turks to vote for a constitutional amendment which is to grant him more power.<br /><br />In regards to the 8:33 comment I will state that some Muslims are not friendly towards non-Muslims and some are friendly and cordial. And also since every person is different and views matters distinctively it can be hard to determine if their choices reflect an exclusivist attitude.Redfox712https://www.blogger.com/profile/17734930967002040931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5846567313402731847.post-90875615255435132362017-03-17T22:22:06.011-07:002017-03-17T22:22:06.011-07:00And Fitna is a grotesque distortion of daily belie...And Fitna is a grotesque distortion of daily belief and practice for the vast majority sowing discord and hurt and only at best serving as a warning against evil (leaders). Just like the dissenting armstrongist blogs. ;-)<br />ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5846567313402731847.post-13647844162961325512017-03-17T22:16:32.694-07:002017-03-17T22:16:32.694-07:00BB,
Yes. All of the above is actually my "ra...BB,<br /><br />Yes. All of the above is actually my "radicalized" way of calling upon Islamic people to somehow incorporate their religion into liberal democratic society that uncompromisingly has accepted the tenets of the Renaissance, the age of Enlightenment and the liberal revolutions. To separate state and church and therefore personalize religious feelings instead of communalize. Then everything will be perfect, regardless of race and religion. :-) <br /><br />Actually I have stated before that Islam and Armstrongism have 99 percent in common. But then I got branded as a "Wade Coxenist" whatever that is.<br /><br />There is very good reason to believe there is a common heritage there with Muhammed meeting christianized jewish groups that had fled from jerusalem. They are both the religions of "submit=islam=armstrongist tenet" they are "jewish" considering sets of beliefs concerning food, harpen to moon calendars and do in reality not accept the separation of church (community of believers) and state (kingdom of god on earth) and the failing of the latter is therefore regarded as a failing of personal religion therefore prone to radicalizing after the failure of both.<br /><br />ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5846567313402731847.post-62480136512854615792017-03-17T19:24:42.690-07:002017-03-17T19:24:42.690-07:00The world has become so much more complicated. Wh...The world has become so much more complicated. When I was in grade school, we had childrens' books about exotic and magical Arabs riding their camels and flying around on magic carpets. Nobody was afraid of them. In high school, we still called them Moslems. It wasn't until the times leading up to the six day war that they actually burst into daily national consciousness. Yasser Arafat came into prominence in Palestine. Then came the revolution in Iran, the rise of repressive fundamentalism, the hostages, and the gas "shortage" (engineered). That seems to be what fomented all of the hatred. And, it's been rising to a crescendo ever since.<br /><br />I'm generally against any people of all colors who misbehave, commit crimes, fail to assimilate, or attempt to promote revolution. It really doesn't have anything to do with a particular race or religion. Frankly, if Armstrongites had sufficient numbers, they would probably be making even more problems for civilized society than Islamic extremists. I see a definite parallel there.<br /><br />BBByker Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15602697337552385535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5846567313402731847.post-53523196612664888262017-03-17T08:33:26.750-07:002017-03-17T08:33:26.750-07:00I am so sorry about the many comments I am making....I am so sorry about the many comments I am making. I really am but I am pissed. I just read your comment that people are urged to exclude muslims. I thought you had an "Armstrongist" background. Then you of all people should know that adherents of middle eastern religions exclude themselves by the "exclusivity" of their religion.<br /><br />You should study Islam more and then comment on people receiving death threats for excercising "western" freedom of speech.<br /><br />ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5846567313402731847.post-32887646470873859792017-03-17T08:28:09.427-07:002017-03-17T08:28:09.427-07:00And as I am typing the news is in that Erdohan of ...And as I am typing the news is in that Erdohan of Turkey is urging Turkish people in entire Europe to breed more children. I love children. But reading the entire speech in context it is clear that the "Sultan" of Turkey is preparing for a hostile Muslim Take Over through a breeding program. I am really sorry about all of this reality as compared to intellectualizing texts and watching movies to intellectually comment on them.<br /><br />ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5846567313402731847.post-62245526137697122582017-03-17T08:11:14.285-07:002017-03-17T08:11:14.285-07:00What irritates me most about this posting is that ...What irritates me most about this posting is that you fail to mention that I, you and others can say whatever we want about Jesus on this blog. Wilders for making the stupid, crazy, idiotic propaganda movie is under 24 hour surveillance because of the muslim death thread for doing what he did. ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5846567313402731847.post-82764790092890753332017-03-17T08:04:37.463-07:002017-03-17T08:04:37.463-07:00Btw. I am not saying the Arabs should withdraw fro...Btw. I am not saying the Arabs should withdraw from northern Africa or the Turks from Turkey. I am only saying that they see it as muslim territory as long as muslims live there. Quite contrary from the western perspective of immigration and integration. They firmly believe that Europe is theirs just for the sole reason that muslims are living there. Not because of the reasons western europeans or americans consider themselves citizens on certain territories. Those are not linked to the religion themselves. Religion IS their identity as a citizen. No problem in muslim majority countries or times of prosperity. HUGE problem in times that social cohesion is needed within a community under stress (like political or economic upheaval. The western politicians have made a HUGE mistake in allowing people of that religion in based on anti racist sentiments. I love muslims by the way but their religion is incompatible with western democracy. This will show at times when social cohesion is a necessity for survival. Not so now. All is well and we are rich.<br /><br />ncknckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5846567313402731847.post-9943540966971411452017-03-17T07:56:15.688-07:002017-03-17T07:56:15.688-07:00Yes. This film is a delibarate attack on muslims. ...Yes. This film is a delibarate attack on muslims. It is propaganda. btw Wilders did not loose the election. The party grew again and now it is the second largest party in the Netherlands. For a majority 4 parties are needed as of yesterday. The fact that the film presents terrible propaganda does not negate the fact that the punishment for a muslim to turn to another religion is death. Also if the "community" of muslims which is the Umma (comparable to the spiritual organism of the church) is forced of lands, it it considered an attack on the entire umma. This means that if any attempt is made to remove muslims from European soil it is considered holy war since to muslims Europe is now MUSLIM territory since believers live there. I do not believe many have a grasp of what it means that the muslims make no distinction between religion and state. This will show in times of conflict (and I pray they are not coming. For instance Turkey is of course a Greek state until the muslims conquered it. Lybia is Italian and Morocco Visigoth, UNTIL the muslim came there and will only leave until the last one died. Very different from the Western perspective on territory, state, people and religion. To muslims they are all and the same the UMMA. <br /><br />nck nckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14580008070423402328noreply@blogger.com