COG Members Have the Power, But Will Not Use It

Silenced had a very good post discussing why UCG and COGWA divided and are simply not going to reunite, despite the yearning of many lay members.

In this article are these enlightening words revealing that members in fact have the power over the ministers, but, alas, for various reasons the members simply do not try to exercise their power over the ministers.

Secondly, you do have some power in this situation, but you refuse to use it. If you want your leaders to listen, withhold your tithes. But the very idea of doing this is so vile and unheard of to the average COG member, this will never happen. They seem to forget that church members have withheld tithes many times in COG history, the WCG split and recent UCG/COGWA schism being predominant examples. There’s confusion among youth who don’t understand the difference between withholding a tithe until a later date and not tithing at all. They’ve been brainwashed into believing that not forwarding a monthly tithe check to the Home Office is a horrific sin against God. Such is the resounding success of the COG’s systemic, cultural and institutional indoctrination. But the reality is, the members do have the power. The moment they withhold their money, these men would suddenly be all ears and scramble to find a solution. If you want reunification, you have to be willing to take an action on your own. But we’re confident that because this would work, you would never, ever try it.

Bob Thiel Desperate to Appear Educated

I was reading Banned by HWA's post regarding Bob Thiel's sermon.

In this sermon he has readjusted his book case to make himself appear educated in the eyes of his tithes paying followers.

An anonymous commenter has most interesting words regard Thiel's obvious feelings of intellectual inferiority. (Emphasis mine.)

Oh my! Look at that book case!

This guy will go to any lengths to make himself look credible! It's really very amusing! If he really was confident on what he thinks he knows, he wouldn't go through so much to change the books in the bookshelf! Check out all his videos and look how the bookshelf changes. Why do you think he feels the need to do that? Because somehow, he has to have something to make himself look scholarly because, well, his words alone just aren't cutting it.

I need to hook up my camera, go to the local library, get a ton of textbooks, get that exact bookshelf, dress up in like "Q" in Star Trek, and
make a satire channel on Thiel. I could call it "The Continuum Church of God". LOL! That would be too much fun.

Someone needs to submit this stuff to one of those sites that make this stuff popular and watch the real critics and the real educated people begin their "evaluation" of the video.

His nervousness only further exposes how false prophet Thiel has taken on far more than he anticipated in striving to build up his own personality cult.

How pathetic this false prophet Thiel is.

False Prophet Thiel's New Message and New Letter

Bob Thiel has released another prophetic proclamation, The Muslim Brotherhood and the Rise of the King of the South.

This time he is standing behind a lectern, just like Meredith used to in old episodes of Tomorrow's World. Thiel pretends he has the authority to preach. Actually he was never ordained. He uses an anointing by an LCG minister and pretends he was appointed by God as a Prophet.

Now onto the message:

The first few minutes are devoted to fear mongering about the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. He says they were banned until Mubarak's downfall. It is my understanding that it operated quite openly in Egypt, but it's politicians were never given a genuine chance to be elected to rule because of the authoritarian Mubarak regime.

Thiel notes they were founded to oppose secular influence caused by British colonial rule. Wait a minute, doesn't the COGs strive to prevent themselves from succumbing to secular influence? How were the Muslim Brotherhood's desire to have an independent Egypt any different from Americans rising up against British rule in the 1770s? Those men are often revered within the COGs as the founders of the United States.

Thiel makes no attempt to understand the Muslim Brotherhood from their perspective. He just wants you to be scared and give tithes to him.

He says the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt are trying to re-establish the Muslim caliphate. Thiel accepts this rhetoric at face value because it supports his argument that Muslim fundamentalists are uniting the Arab world under a future King of the South.

But should he accept this rhetoric at face value? Is it rational to do so?

He never asks himself if they are actually serious. True, they say such things, but are they implementing it? Have they decided who should be the Caliph? Have they made laws to implement this? All this talk about the Muslim Brotherhood trying to create a Caliphate seem most outlandish to me. Who would the Egyptian people accept as a Caliph? Has Egypt called for other Muslim governments to recognize President Morsi or any other Egyptian as a Caliph, or as one deserving of religious respect by all Muslims?

Recently President Morsi tried to change some laws to grant himself with wider powers. In response many protesters came out on the streets resisting this perceived return to dictatorship. How could anyone claim to be the Caliph in such a polarized and uncertain atmosphere?

Thiel never asks questions of this nature. He just accepts a few words he saw on their website to make people afraid of the Muslim Brotherhood.

It also needs to be said that Thiel does not truly let the Muslim Brotherhood speak for themselves, but instead use a few words of theirs to subtly insert his own wacky ideas about a future King of the South. 

It also should be stated that many American rightists have tended to demonize the Muslim Brotherhood as some sort of conspiratorial organization that should be feared. I fear that Thiel might have let himself be influenced by such paranoid thinking.

His fear mongering comments about the Muslim Brotherhood and some Muslims' dreams of re-creating a Muslim caliphate remind me of a book I was lucky enough to read recently, The Vietnam Hearings, an account of the Fulbright hearings in early 1966. Back then much of the world was quite fearful of possible aggression from Communist powers. And one of the testifiers in these hearings talked about distinguishing between rhetoric and what one is willing to do.

They discussed how, if one took Communist rhetoric at face value, it meant that the USSR and China were striving to conquer the world. But then they noted, on the other hand, that China did not act like a government striving to conquer the world. They did invade a disputed border region with India, but the Chinese viewed this as reclaiming lost territory so even this invasion could not be assumed to be evidence of aggression.

And while talking about this one of them said that such Communist rhetoric of international solidarity with the workers, that the capitalist world will disintegrate, etc, should be viewed as simply pseudo-religious rhetoric which they at present cannot act upon, and therefore it should just be safely ignored as hot air. In olden times such rhetoric did have serious meaning but now it was simply relics of a bygone age that they did not back up with deeds.

Also closer to home, the COGs are filled to the brim with religious rhetoric that once made sense (a bit), but today just sound like obsolete nonsense. Like the COGs' claim that they are called to bear witness to the world by telling modern day Israelites that God will soon punish them for their sins by letting them be conquered by Germans and sent into exile as slaves. When only HWA did this it made sense. Today many COGs claim to be doing this but they completely fail to have any impact on the wider society. Most Americans and British people do not even know they exist. Thiel never asks himself if the Muslim Brotherhood's rhetoric should be understood in this way.

Tunisian Prime Minister views his election as like the beginning of a Caliphate. Then he mentions another Muslim wants to create a Caliphate with its Headquarters in Jerusalem. Thiel never bothers to mentions who. Was he from Hamas? Was he from some other organization?

Also why have a Caliph in Jerusalem? Traditionally the Caliphs were based in other cities, not Jerusalem.

As I said before, Thiel is not just a bad speaker, he is also very confusing.

Since at least 1967, if not earlier, Palestinian Arabs have been striving to create a Palestinian state. They have always yearned to have their capital in Jerusalem. Some of them are affiliated with religiously conservative organizations like Hamas, and naturally those people tend to express their longings for a national homeland in religious rhetoric.

At another point he mentions the Caliph and then he mentions the Mahdi. The Mahdi is completely different. He's a righteous religious figure who is said to be destined to come near the end of the age. Thiel tries to confuse his followers again.

Once again another very confusing, and very unenlightening message from this false prophet.

Also false prophet Thiel has also written a new members letter. He complains about how he has had trouble trying to upload his sermon to Youtube, and that his computer got a virus.

He has also been boasting again.

Did two radio interviews this past week.  And while no further ones are currently scheduled, based upon audience estimates as provided by the radio hosts, we of the Continuing Church of God have reached more people in our first few weeks of existence than any non-GTA group that was part of the old Worldwide Church of God or the old Global Church of God.
Since our first month is still not over (and while it may be for radio, it is not for the internet), God willing, I intend to provide statistics related to our reach in the letter next week.

(Notice how he did not mention LCG.)

As I explained in an earlier post this is rhetoric Thiel feels compel to used because the impact of one's work has always been used by Armstrongites to justify their activities.

This rhetoric is a total, vicious lie. But he does not care because he wants those tithes and he wants to prove himself worthy of leadership in the eyes of his followers. He knows that some will inevitably be lured into his grasp.

David Hulme: Twidling His Thumbs Since 1998

About a month ago Silenced reported that David Hulme's COG group appears to be imploding. Apparently he has started excommunicating members more.

This made me think that he must be one of the most useless COG leaders there is. I mean he had so much going for him. He was a very prominent minister within WCG, he was one of the three chosen to continue speaking in the World Tomorrow telecast after HWA's death, when UCG split from WCG he was elected the leader of UCG.

With the founding of UCG Hulme was the leader of the largest Armstrongite group in the world.

David Hulme did not have the one man rule that HWA used and abused, but he commanded more influence and power than any other Armstrongite minister.

And then he threw this away by getting into an argument with UCG elders. It was a struggle between King and Parliament. And so he left UCG, and set up his own COG, the Church of God - An International Community.

And then what?

For whatever reason Hulme and his group has been extremely tight lipped about, well, everything ever since 1998.

The Armstrongite Churches of God are a wasteland of megalomaniac despots and plunderers of peoples' tithes but at least they talk about what they are doing. A lot of what they do is quite despicable but at least they are trying to do something. Whether it is worthwhile is a different topic. (With the answer usually being no.)

But what has David Hulme done?

Nothing. Or at least nothing worth talking about. (Until now it seems. And even then we know very little.)

Clearly his decision to leave UCG must be regarded as the worst decision of his Armstrongite ministerial career. Without a robust group of like minded cohorts behind him which he had in UCG he has simply flailed in the winds, steering his ship with dull regularity, following the current without striving to reach any particular destination. 

The only impact Hulme's group had on me, if one could call it that, was that I often went to Pabco's Home Page, which appears to be maintained by a follower of Hulme. But this web site is merely one lone church member's doing. Many other Armstrongites have also provided the same information.

What is David Hulme doing?

Twiddling his thumbs?

Considering how little we know about what he is doing he might as well have done so.

Silenced well sums it up:

Still obscure

Nobody cares

Not even the blogs

Shirley Armstrong Returns from Hospital

According to the false prophet Bob Thiel (former LCG member), Shirley Armstrong, widowed wife of Garner Ted Armstrong, has returned home from hospital.

I hope she recovers well from this adversity.

HWA Condemns "Prophet" Bob Thiel's Usurping of Authority

Recently Banned by HWA analysed a post by Bob Thiel, How can a Christian discern a true Prophet?, which strives to convince people that Bob Thiel is a Prophet from God.

In this article Thiel quotes HWA in an attempt to back up his claim of prophethood.

Thiel fails to mention that HWA taught that New Testament Prophets had no administrative authority but merely revealed the will of God to the church because the Bible was not yet fully written.

I discussed this topic in a previous post.

In Mystery of the Ages, Chapter 6, under the heading, 'One Church with One Government', HWA wrote:

No prophets are mentioned as having either administrative, executive or preaching functions in the New Testament Church.

(Note: In PCG's edition of Mystery of the Ages these words are deleted because PCG teaches that their leader, Gerald Flurry, is "That Prophet.")

This was the consistent teaching of HWA's WCG on this topic as early as 1952, as may be seen in Herman Hoeh's article in the August 1953 Good News, 'Government in our Church', pp. 3-4, 7-8. 

Even though evangelists were next in authority under the apostles, next in spiritual order and above the evangelists are listed the prophets (I Cor. 12:28). Often in the Bible, prophet means preacher or poet. But in the New Testament history there are several instances mentioned in which prophets-both men and women-were used to foretell by special and personal revelation from God (Acts 11: 27-30; 21: 9-10). They spoke and exhorted the brethren and, if men, sometimes preached, although not usually evangelistic for the purpose of raising up churches. 

Those who evangelized had authority over local churches, whereas the prophets had no government office or authority. Even in the Old Testament, where both men and women were used as prophets, none of the prophets had government authority unless they were also judges. In the New Testament, the only prophets with government authority were also apostles, evangelists, or elders (Acts 15:32; I Tim. 4:14).' (p.4).

Thiel claims to have been ordained a Prophet. According to HWA then, even if he was a Prophet, he has no right to start his own church.

Thiel signs himself off as a Pastor. But being ordained a Prophet gives him no right to be a Pastor.

HWA said so.

***

So now we know what HWA would think about Thiel's attempt to claim prophethood and to be pastor there are other matters about his article that needs to be stated.

Why is he citing Leroy Neff, who is now affiliated with UCG? Thiel condemned UCG for electing their leaders among themselves, contradicting HWA's doctrine of one man rule. Why is he relying on a man who accepted what Thiel appears to regard as heresy?

Thiel condemned UCG for (he says) lacking zeal in spreading 'the truth'. But UCG no doubt spreads Armstrongism far more widely and effectively than Thiel can hope to do with his own group.

Why hasn't Gaylyn Bonjour, the LCG minister who anointed him, not joined with Thiel?

A major reason he got as far as he did with his blog was that he supported one of the major COGs, namely Meredith's LCG. Now that he is on his own how is he any different from any other COG blogger out there claiming to continue the work of HWA? There are all too many of them and now Thiel is just as unimportant as them.

When I read his post announcing that he was starting his own COG personality cult I was offended that he complained that he had received a factually incorrect letter from Meredith.

People close to Meredith have often noted that he lies wherever necessary. He once lied about Raymond McNair's ex-wife and caused WCG to be sued by her and in 1992 it was forced to pay about $850,000 to her. Also in his telecasts Meredith often says 'you will get this information nowhere else' or words to that effect. How is that not lying?

I wish Thiel had learned that earlier. It would have saved me a lot of trouble. Or at least he would bear no responsibility for luring me into the legalistic abyss of Meredith's LCG.

But reading about Thiel's breaking away it appears what really offended Thiel was that LCG Headquarters refused to agree with Thiel's belief that he had been ordained by God as a Prophet and that they refused to listen to a mere lay member when he disagreed with at least one charge in doctrine.

What self serving, pompous madness.

What a loser he is.

(BTW, who is William H. Ellis and where is he affiliated now?)

Is Bob Thiel Learning from Dave Pack?

Bob Thiel's recent boasts make me compells me to wonder if Thiel is imitating Dave Pack.

Pack every now and then publishes statements claiming his group is the best COG and is the only true church. He often claims that he has remarkable results in spreading 'the truth' and gaining converts. No2HWA just recently noted one such boasting by Pack.

False Prophet Thiel's article on Dave Pack's RCG also notes how Pack boasts of having great impact in spreading 'the truth' and refutes his claims.

Thiel now tries to do exactly what Pack did.

Now I am no fan of Dave Pack. I would say he is more authoritarian (and therefore worst) than even Meredith. At least Meredith lets followers go to their doctors and lets women followers wear make up. I know Pack forbids women wearing make up. I am not sure about his position on doctors, but his claims to follow HWA precisely seems to indicate that he forbids doctors and medicine. I hope that is not the case.

Below are Thiel's words regarding Pack's boastings in his article about Dave Pack and the so-called Restored Church of God.

How similar are Pack's deeds with what Thiel is now doing?

Why is Bob Thiel now doing what he condemned when Pack did them?

Although it is unclear how RCG now spends its funds, it now seems to believe that its internet presence is proof that it has preached the gospel adequately...

LCG has reached over 200 nations/territories and accomplished that years before RCG did. Thus, by that standard, RCG should have been supporting LCG. FWIW, I know the COGwriter site has reached over 200 nations/territories too (and people from countries representing most people on the planet are reached pretty much every week at COGwriter).

Anyway, having one or more hits from each nation has been obtained by other COGs (I suspect that both UCG and Barnabas Ministries did this years ago too--as undoubtedly several of the other COG sites most likely have), hence RCG should have been a bit more careful on how it tried to spin this. It is not unique in this accomplishment....

RCG tends to temporarily brag about certain statistics for a while, then switch to others when the previous ones are not as impressive. It has done this repeatedly over its history, yet his followers seem not to have caught on to this game.... (This emphasis mine-Redfox712)

RCG has always been concerned about numbers. So much so, that it almost always had various statistics that it has selectively bragged about for years (it just tends to change which one it brags about once it does not appear as positive).

Furthermore, RCG's David Pack, after writing the previously mentioned booklet, posted a letter dated 1-13-12 titled An Open Letter to All WCG Splinters RCG Fruits—Obvious Fingerprints of God! where he brags about and emphasizes many RCG statistics--there are pages of statistics and numbers he tries to brag about. Additionally, is not mentioning that attendance was up 6.0% in March 2011 indicative that David Pack and RCG are concerned about numbers? The hypocrisy and contradictions in RCG should be obvious, yet its members overlook them (though some finally do end up opening their eyes and leaving).

I think Thiel's analysis of Pack's boasts provides a preview of what to expect when Bob Thiel boasts statistics to claim he has a more impactful work in spreading 'the truth' more than any other COG.

The facts do not support Thiel's boasts. He will have to make up his own facts, ignore the many things against his argument, and (misleadingly) insist that he has proved that he is the leader of the one true church.

Of course it is a lie. It is bearing false witness. And if he actually believed in God as he says, he should think very carefully what He would think about tricking people who trust him and exploiting them to gain tithes.

He is already beginning this deed of misinformation. Note what Thiel wrote in his latest members' letter:

Based upon statistics on the internet and radio estimates I have received, it appears we in the Continuing Church of God seem to be reaching more people with Christ’s gospel of the Kingdom on a per member basis than any other COG group.

Why on a per member basis? Did HWA boast his growth was impressive because it was on a per member basis?

This is a selective test Thiel has set for himself. He has fixed the question so he can say he has the fruits that prove his right to rule.

He is already fudging the question to deceive potential followers.

He will easily devise the statistics he needs from this question.

He is bearing false witness to his members. This is despicable and immoral behavior.

Why Bob Thiel Claims His COG is the Best Proclaimer of 'the Truth'

No2HWA has posted on Banned by HWA that Bob Thiel has been boasting that his group is spreading 'the truth' more effectively than any other COG group.

I am unsurprised he has made these boastings.

He had to boast that he has been reaching more people than anyone else. He is trying to imitate HWA and is claiming to have inherited his mantle and to bear HWA's signs of divine favor.

HWA taught that 'gaining fruit' (getting many converts) was a sign that God was with him. He constantly boasted that his sect expanded its membership by 30% constantly over 35 years (1934-1969). (He was never specific about when this time of expansion ended I must add.)

While Bob Thiel was a member of LCG (and only a lay member) he always, and I mean always, put down all the other COGs and his most common retort was that they failed to get the message of 'the truth' (Armstrongism) out to the world in a major way, unlike HWA's WCG. It was very easy for him to throw this argument at the vast majority of COG organizations which are much smaller than LCG, UCG and the other major ones.

(It was a bit harder to use this when discussing the other major COG groups but he had other arguments for them.)

He knows he had set 'ability to spread "the truth" (Armstrongism) widely' as a test to see where God is working now.

Before he said that LCG met this test and must be the true COG and must be supported.

Now that he has broken away from LCG, naturally he will say LCG has failed this test to justify his decision to leave.

And now that he has started his own 'one true church' he must say his group 'bears more fruit' (spread 'the truth' widely and effectively) than any other COG.

To those of us in the real world, including most COG members, his boastings are completely absurd and unrealistic.

But, alas, he is not talking to us, he is talking to those willing to follow him and pay tithes to him. He knows they expect this sign to follow those with God's favor. HWA claimed to bear this sign. Bob Thiel claimed Meredith bared this sign. Now Thiel claims this sign for himself.

I seriously doubt he really believes he is making a great impact in proclaiming 'the truth', but he has to say it to dupe and persuade potential followers.

That is why he says such false and deceiving things as claiming his group is having the greater impact, per capita or otherwise, among all other COGs.

Call for Dave Pack to be Cancelled from TWN and GraceTV

Last night I was minding my own business watching a music video and at the start I saw a Google ad for Dave Pack's cult, the so-called Restored Church of God. At the beginning and then the end. That was annoying.

It's ironic but in the music video the singer mentions being nervous at showing her face without make up to her beloved. As is well known Dave Pack forbids female members from wearing make up.

Now I've read at Banned by HWA that he's written a letter to other Armstrongites boasting that his cult is far better than all the other COGs out there.

But while reading it I noted that he boasted that his TV program would soon be appearing on two TV stations, The Word Network and GraceTV.

Most likely these two TV stations are unaware of the true nature of Dave Pack's RCG. Therefore I am sending them the following letter.

Also I encourage you to also send an email to them making clear that this group is contrary to the stated mission of these two TV stations and that they should immediately cancel any agreement they have with Dave Pack.If we speak up together as one one we will be speaking with a strong voice.

Here's where to send your letters.

http://gracetelevision.net/contact

http://www.thewordnetwork.org/contact

Here is the letter I sent them.

Feel free to cut and paste it to them.

Or maybe send in your own thoughts and comments to them.

To whom it may concern,

It has recently been brought to my attention that a religious organization called the Restored Church of God (RCG), which is led by one Dave Pack, is about to broadcast a TV show called The World to Come. I fear you may not be aware of the real nature of this organization.

Dave Pack is a follower of Herbert W. Armstrong, an infamous cult leader who founded and led the Worldwide Church of God and proclaimed himself to be an Apostle. He taught many doctrines contrary to what is traditionally understood by most Christians. He is labeled in Walter Martin's Kingdom of the Cults as a cult leader who taught many heresies. After his death in 1986 his successors renounced many of his heresies but numerous splinter groups have arisen striving to continue his heresies, including Dave Pack, who continues to teach many of Herbert W. Armstrong's heresies.

RCG is anti-trinitarian. Dave Pack teaches against the Trinity. Instead he teaches that God is a family of divine beings, currently composed of two members, God the Father and God the Son (Christ), with the Holy Spirit is taught to be merely an impersonal force, a thing) into which believers may be born into and become as fully God as God is God, though of a lower rank under God the Father and God the Son. This teaching comes from Herbert W. Armstrong.

RCG observes the seventh day Sabbath (Friday sunset to Saturday sunset) and the feasts mentioned in Leviticus 23. This teaching also comes from Herbert W. Armstrong.

RCG also teaches that Sunday keeping Christians are not real Christians but are heretics and that keeping Sunday is the Mark of the Beast mentioned in Revelation. This teaching also comes from Herbert W. Armstrong.

RCG says says that Grace is license to sin. RCG teaches grace to be a heretical teaching falsely used by Sunday keeping false Christians to do away with God's law and that the Old Testament covenant (aside from ritual sacrifices) is still to be followed. However they also teach that the ritual sacrifices of the Old Testament are abolished but insist that those sacrifices were part of a separate law they call the 'law of Moses'.  

RCG teaches the fallacy of British-Israelism, the false belief that the British and the Americans are descendants of the lost ten tribes of Israel. This teaching also comes from Herbert W. Armstrong.

RCG forces members to pay three tithes, doctrines created by Herbert W. Armstrong, causing all sorts of financial and social woes for its members. The second tithe is paid in order to fund members' observance of the feasts of Leviticus 23, especially the Feast of Tabernacles. The third tithe is paid every two years in seven, supposedly to care for poorer church members, but historically it has often been abused in Herbert W. Armstrong's sect and other related sects. These extra tithes are cunningly not revealed to prospective members until they are firmly convinced that this heretic Dave Pack must be followed. Most likely Pack will never mention these extra tithes in his TV show or even his magazine, The Real Truth.

RCG's women members are forbidden to wear make up.

RCG teach that Dave Pack is an Apostle. In a sermon on February 26, 2005 he proclaimed himself to be an Apostle just like Herbert W. Armstrong. All RCG members are required to believe this absurd belief. More information on this sermon may be seen at http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/artcls/pack.htm.

Because of these facts I feel very strongly that Dave Pack should not be allowed to run his TV show on your network. He denigrates most Christians as being false and seeks to turn people against mainstream Christianity. Now that you are aware of these facts I appeal to you to not let him broadcast his TV station on your TV network.

Thank you for your kind consideration of this letter.

Regards,

Redfox712

Together we are strong. Let us disrupt his attempt to lure people into his clutches.

Bob Thiel's Wish to Hide His LCG Past

Saw this in the last post about former LCG apologist now self proclaimed prophet Bob Thiel, from Banned by HWA.

He starts his daily missal stating that he had to cease affiliation with the Living Church of God, of which, he will not name.  How stupid is that?

As most readers now know, it became necessary for me to cease my affiliation with a group based out of North Carolina and form the Continuing Church of God.

He is caught in an impossible position of his own devising. He wants to have his cake and eat it too.

On the one hand he wants to deny or minimize the link he has with LCG in order to be special in his followers' eyes.

But on the other he needs LCG to claim continuity with HWA and RCM. He needed the supposed 'anointing' by LCG's Gaylyn Bonjour to claim that he is a prophet.

He needs LCG to bolster his claim to be a Prophet, but clearly he wishes he did not need them. His refusal to name them in this instance demonstrates his desire to set himself up as a leader in need of no other Armstrongite leader.

To those of us in the real world his minimization of his involvement with LCG seems absurd, and it is, but he is trying to make his followers forget LCG and focus their attention on him.

It really is quite pathetic.

It reminds me of how HWA claimed he never joined the Church of God (Seventh Day) when he clearly did, and even was ordained a minister for them, until he had his license revoked in 1938, a detail of his life he never discussed to my knowledge.

Too bad for Thiel there is no way he can retcon his involvement with LCG away except in the minds of the few followers who are deceived into joining. 

And on another matter, why is it he always writes the name of his cult as Continuing Church of God, with the first word clearly italicized? He always write that way. Is this confusing speaker so desperate to make his cult's name stand out?

Review of Bob Thiel's Second Youtube Message

I was reading Banned by HWA about the false prophet Bob Thiel's new Youtube channel. I decided to watch the embedded video.

He whines that the US national debt just keeps rising. If it didn't the US would have to cut back spending on certain things and, alas, most likely whatever gets cut will more likely affect the poor and vulnerable.


It is such a stupid video. 0 out of 10. He condemns quantitative easing that the US government is doing. While watching this video I saw no evidence that this false prophet even understands what the US government is trying to do and still he dares to ignorantly criticize them.

Thiel's Ignorant Polemic

He pompously says, our leaders don't understand the true problems. He whines that the US government is devaluing the US currency by increased spending and this will somehow cause hyperinflation.

(I resent how he brings up random examples of hyperinflation and just pretends that these are relevant to the current US situation. He spends no time trying to understand what actually happened in those instances but just tosses these ideas in order to scare potential recruits into his COG personality cult. It demonstrates laziness in his discussion of this topic.)

He then condemns such 'devaluing' as 'sin' and then spends a long time discussing obsolete problems regarding metal currency and inappropriately uses some Biblical versus to claim quantitative easing is sinful and will only lead to national catastrophe.

Thiel Does Not Know Why We No Longer Use Precious Metals In Our Currencies

He also spends an embarrassingly long time seemingly complaining that the US have devalued its coins. He seems to complain that the US treasury is using less valuable metals in making modern day coins. Dimes used to have actual silver, now they use something of less value. This is wrong. God says this is wrong. He seems to be saying that he wants silver placed in his coins again.

This is astoundingly ignorant. There is a very good reason why precious metals of that sort are no longer used in US currency: Not enough supply, too much demand. As the world population and the amount of money used has vastly increased, the supply of precious metals (such as gold) used to back such currency became less and less. There was too many people, too much money floating around, and the economy had expanded far too much for gold to effectively back a currency. Because of that modern day economies are not backed by precious metals. Not enough supply, too much demand.

Restoring precious metals into the currency, as he seems to suggest, would not help anyone.

Money Today No Longer Backed by Metals, But Thiel Does Not Seem to Understand This

No one had paper money back in ancient times. Back in Biblical times the advice it gave would have been no doubt good advice. Today metal currency is not an issue. Back in olden days people used metals as currency. They did not have paper money. As far as I can tell governments did not have the ability to produce dependable paper currency at that time. And traditionally many people were quite skeptical of paper currency because they feared that what backed the paper currency would fail. However as the modern day nation state arose and became more powerful the governments were able to produce currency that did not have to be backed by some sort of metal. The world's financial markets did not collapse but instead thrived with this innovation. Ancient hindrances against a paper currency have through been successfully overcome.

So for Bob Thiel to ignorantly use Biblical versus discussing the problems of devalued metal currencies when modern day currencies are no longer backed by such metals demonstrate how utterly ignorant this false prophet is. Randomly throwing Biblical verses without understanding modern day differences cannot make his message seem anymore enlightened.

Thiel Ignorant of Keynesianism

Bob Thiel does not even understand what the US government is trying to do.

It is called Keynesianism, named after the economist John Maynard Keynes. He should do some research on that before mindlessly condemning what US leaders are trying to do.  

That is what Keynesianism advocates: government cuts spending in times of growth, government increase spending during times of ecominic contraction.

What does this false prophet want the US government to do? Stop spending? As the Great Depression proved that is exactly the worst thing a government can do during a recession, because it insures that there is even less money flowing around in the economy, and therefore there will be less spending in the private sector, therefore more people will be laid off and will be unable to productively contribute to the economy and the economy will be harmed because the government did not spend more money during the crisis.

Some object, But this will cause even more debt. That problem should not be the main focus of attention until the economy recovers. Cutting government spending during an economic slow down (austerity) is exactly the worse thing you can do and only makes the recession worse. That is what Greece, Ireland, Spain and other Eurozone countries are doing now and this is why they are only throwing themselves deeper into financial turmoil.

Conclusion

The false prophet gives absolutely no indication that he even understands that this is what the US government is trying to do. His message in this video is a complete and total failure.

LCG Members in Burma

While reading LCG apologist Bob Thiel's page on news of LCG I noticed every now and then it would mention LCG members in Burma (also known as Myanmar). Recently I was catching up on news and found this news report about an LCG minister visiting their Burmese members.

This is from the April 5, 2012 LCG World Ahead Weekly Update, written by LCG minister Rajan Moses, as shown on the false prophet Bob Thiel's website.

Visit to Myanmar Kalymyo: On January 19 we flew from Yangon to Kalaymyo. A large group of Church members were there to welcome us. The next day we went by motor cycle to get a good view of Kalaymyo University in the valley. While coming back to the hotel, Thomas Tial Hoe wanted to print his copy of The World Ahead from the computer at an Internet Café. The Internet Café lady told Thomas that her sister had opened a new hotel and since it is a new hotel she was willing to give us a special price. We compared it to the hotel we were currently staying in, and found that it was cheaper and new. We immediately moved to the new hotel. I noticed the new hotel had a big hall and asked the manager if we could use it for the Sabbath service. The manager was very kind and I told Tho mas to inform all the Church members from the village. About 41 members, including children, arrived at the hotel at 10:00 a.m. on the Sabbath. All were well dressed and it was like a mini Feast. This was the first time the members ever experienced a Sabbath service in a hotel. All sang very enthusiastically during the song service. We also enjoyed special music singing…. I gave them an update on the Work and gave a sermon on “Faith and Obedience,” which was interpreted to the congregation by Thomas Tial Hoe. All the members were very happy and shook hands with me. This is the first time a minister from the Living Church of God has visited the members in Kalaymyo. Thomas Tial Hoe’s wife served us lunch which she had prepared the previous evening. We ate together and fellowshipped for a long time in the afternoon. I also met the first Burmese member, baptised in 1972. He came about 80 miles to Kalaymyo. He is 72 years old now and was very happy to meet with me. We also had other members who travelled far to join us.

Kyarinn village: On Monday, Thomas’ son took me on his motor cycle to his village. The road was very bumpy and in some places very dusty. When we reached the village, all the brethren welcomed me. We had a Bible Study on “Christ the Creator” and the “Kingdom of God.” After the Bible Study, a long-time member who is 75 years old came to me and, in front of the members, cried and told me “Thank you for coming.” Some members told me that they had not had a foreign minister visit them for more than 30 years. Some of the ladies were very emotional and shook hands with me and wanted me to visit again next year. After lunch we had a question and answer session. Some brethren asked about marriage, Sabbath-keeping and about Tomorrow’s World. One long-time member who is 75 years old insisted that I should visit his home the next day.
The next day all the Church members visited his home, about two miles from Thomas’ home. We walked through the paddy fields to get there. This member has a fishing pond where he catches fish for his meals. While I was there, he was able to catch two big fish for us. He had never caught fish as big before. He told me it was a miracle. I conducted a Bible Study about the “True Church and the Kingdom of God.” In front of his home there was a nice open space where we had the Bible Study and lunch. All the members sang songs and enjoyed a good meal. A long-time Church member walked 30 miles and took a bus for 124 miles to see us in the village.
Sakhan Gyi village: On January 26, Thomas and I flew from Kalaymyo to Yangon
where we stayed one night and the next day went on to Myaung Mya. Upon arrival, we met Mr. Saw Htoo Ray and other members waiting for us at the hotel. He was able to get permission from the Immigration Department for me to visit the brethren in the village. They were very happy to see us again. On the Sabbath, January 28, we took a motorboat to visit the Sakhan Gyi brethren. It took us over an hour to reach the village. Many brethren were waiting at the riverside to welcome us. I conducted the Sabbath service and gave the same sermon I gave in Kalaymyo. Saw Htoo Ray played special music. On Sunday, January 29, we left Myaung Mya for Yangon.—Rajan Moses

I think it is very sad that these people have been cunningly tricked into joining this false religious organization. They no doubt have enough problems to deal with without all the problems this fundamentally deceptive group will inflict upon them.

How terrible that a Burmese man has falsely believed that HWA was a man of God since 1972 and he has believed this all this time. Quite likely he never had access to the information which reveals that he was a fake.

Since 1962 Burma, for the most part, had been ruled by a ruthless military dictatorship that succeeded in getting Burma hopelessly isolated from the world. Thankfully over the last few years this sorry state of affairs seems to be improving significantly but no doubt there are still many problems to deal with. 

Why Did LCG Change the Falling Away Doctrine?

One of the reasons why Bob Thiel broke away from LCG is that apparently LCG has changed the Falling Away doctrine.

From what I can gather before LCG taught that the falling away was something primarily among the COGs.

But now LCG teaches that the falling away is something that happens to the entire world, not just the COGs.

Why would LCG change this doctrine?

I would suggest this has been done in order to scare non-COG potential recruits watching their TV shows and reading their magazines.

If a non-COG person started reading their deceitful writings or watched their fear inducing TV shows the idea of the falling away cannot be used to scare them into following LCG under the old understanding.

If the falling away is taught as something that the entire world experiences (as LCG does now) then this idea can be used to scare potential recruits and swallow them up into the abyss of Armstrongism.

It also has the added 'benefit' of scaring LCG members even more then they already are.

Dave Pack Tries to Take Advantage of LCG/Bob Thiel Split

Dave Pack is certainly keeping his eyes on the split between LCG and Bob Thiel. Like a carrion feeder he sees opportunity in this debacle and tries to take whatever disillusioned LCG members he can get.

If you google "COGwriter" you will see a sponsored link to Dave Pack's cult with one of several headlines alluding to the split.

"COGwriter & LCG Split - Why Another Splinter Group?"

"Continuing Church of God - Why Another Splinter Group?"

"Bob Thiel Leaves Living - Why Another Splinter Group?"

As far as I know he does not appear to have written anything specific about the split, these links just go to his website.

If he wishes to take advantage of this split then I will too.

It must be said that as far as I can tell Dave Pack is even more of an authoritarian cult leader than Roderick Meredith.

Anyone unaware of him and looking for good information aboutDave Pack should go here.

Some Insightful Comments About the LCG/Bob Thiel Spat

From this Banned by HWA comment thread.

From Byker Bob:

This is just too funny! What does Thiel care who calls him what? For a true prophet, it would not matter one tinker's damn whether some quasi-official entity or group called you by what you wanted to be your title. All that would matter would be the "fact" that one indeed had the gift of prophecy. And, recognition would come from being accurate over a prolonged time period.


Reality is that Thiel should be more concerned that we here have called him a non-prophet, or false prophet. Were I Thiel, Id be getting busy making some accurate and specific prophecies that held up to scrutiny.

Anonymous:

 In actual fact Bob Thiel really is a prophet.

In actual fact Ronald Weinland really is a prophet.

In actual fact Gerald Flurry really is a prophet.

In actual fact many other former WCG people really are prophets.

In actual fact they really are worth-less-than-nothing, lying FALSE PROPHETS!!!!!!! In actual fact they really do have the power to make themselves that sort of prophet.

From Head Usher:

The thing that really boggles my mind in all this LCG-Thiel nonsense is that on the one hand Thiel is relying on the authority, infallibility, and spiritual clairvoyance of Meredith & Co. to legitimize his claim to prophet status, but now needs to turn around and with the other hand de-legitimize them all to pull a revenue stream out of LCG (his primary target demographic I presume). Does he not perceive that attempting to strip these guys of their deified status, de-legitimizes his own claim to divinity?

That is exactly what I have been thinking.

From this Banned by HWA comment thread:

An Anonymous comment which argues that the LCG leadership bears some responsibility for the rise of yet another Armstrongite false prophet:

Bob LISTENED to them [after LCG's leaders alledgedly suggested Bob Thiel may be a Prophet]. Bob trusted these people because of their high COG position and LISTENED to them. If Bob is correct here, and I have no reason to believe he isn't, Bob took EVERYTHING he says he was allegedly told here as absolute truth. Bob even says it was Meredith HIMSELF who brought the "prophet" matter up WAY back in 2008. According to Bob, they pumped him up and they induced him, apparently repeatedly, to think of himself as a prophet. I believe that Bob's saying in a nutshell, "Its all their fault, they told me I was, and they kept telling me and telling me, they're COG ministers, even the presiding evangelist, so I believed them and acted on it, and when I did, they stomp on my face and tell me to get out!"

Others have written on this board alleging that Meredith has a history of saying one thing and denying it later. Winnail says allegedly by Thiel that they DID say he may be a prophet. These men are what Thiel has viewed as actual ministers of God and I'm sure believes since they were ministers that they were speaking from Christ's mouth to him. That's what we all would have thought back in the day. Bob, for 4 years, developed this kind of pride and ego because the ministry encouraged and promoted it. I think that instead of promoting humility and teaching the truth, they promoted pride and fed him lies. Why? I don't think they wanted to offend him and thus lose tithes and offerings. Those ministers I believe said all those things and weren't serious about it, and they are JUST as responsible IMHO for EVERYTHING Theil is now. I think it appears to me that LCG has created a False Prophet, In my opinion - and, We're seeing the destruction Armstrongism does in full view all over again to those who put their faith in it.

False Prophet Thiel Publishes First Co-Worker Letter

The false prophet Bob Thiel has released his first co-worker letter. (Hat tip to an anonymous comment from Banned by HWA.)

What I noticed about it is how Bob Thiel is trying to portray himself as leading a church composed of non-WCG members.

We have heard from scattered ones in the USA, Canada, Africa, and the South Pacific. As most of you know, this has been a packed eight days here in California. 

On Sunday, I spoke over the telephone with the first person who decided to commit to the Continuing Church of God whom I previously did not know personally. After speaking with him and then hearing from the first woman to commit whom I did not know personally, I decided a high priority would be to figure out how to serve our few scattered brethren. 

On December 29, 2012, we held for the first service of the Continuing Church of God. It consisted of having brief sermon followed by a question and answer session as a third of the congregants had never attended any Church of God service and had questions. 

How dare Bob Thiel plan to trap people into his personality cult! Shame on him. Teaching people to find hope in the words of a man who made many inaccurate predictions and shamefully committed incest for ten years with his daughter. This is truly despicable.

Bob Thiel also boasted that he had a grandson of HWA open the service.

Opening prayer by an appropriate male  (Dan Mattson, grandson of the [sic] Herbert W. Armstrong opened here in Arroyo Grande today).

He is the son of Dorothy Mattson, HWA's younger daughter.

Unsurprisingly Bob Thiel is boasting that he has an astounding work and is reaching more people than any other COG per capita.

And of course, COGwriter.com has continued as have my previous prophetic YouTubes and we have reached approximately 30,000 different people on the internet since beginning the Continuing Church of God late on 12/28/12. This is more than other COG groups near or smaller than our size (and apparently more than most who are bigger).

Although this is absurd, he does this in order to claim the legitimacy to lead. Claiming to have a greater work than other COG is a common way for Armstrongite leaders to claim legitimacy and to say that God is working through them. I can well remember when Bob Thiel condemned other COGs (rightly) for making similar claims of divine legitimacy. He cannot see that he is no better than they.

I now quote from the anonymous comment that cited this letter. (Emphasis mine.)

Notice that he signs it as "Pastor and Overseer" of his new church. 

If Thiel caught anyone else fudging Biblical offices like this, he would rake them over the coals. 

Even if Gaylyn Bonjour's ordination somehow did make Thiel a Prophet, it could not have made him both a Prophet AND a Pastor and an Overseer (Bishop/Elder). So, where does Thiel get the idea that he has now become both a Prophet AND a Pastor and an Elder? 

I prophesy that it won't be long before Thiel discovers that he really is an Apostle, too, along with everything else he is. 

This demonstrates once again the ignorance of Bob Thiel.

How long will it be before false prophet Bob Thiel start begging for money like the false prophet of 1975 HWA?

What a disgraceful spectacle false prophet Bob Thiel is conducting.

Bob Thiel Claims to be Chosen by God as a Prophet

I've been reading about false prophet Bob Thiel's attempt to claim he has been appointed by God as a Prophet.

Bob Thiel is quite vague about it but essentially he claims that God has appointed him as a Prophet.

To outsiders Bob Thiel's attempts to say he has been appointed by God as a Prophet may seem  absurd and even as a sign of mental illness. But we must see it as an attempt by him to claim authority from God to teach 'the truth.'

He presents this complicated timeline as evidence that he has been appointed by God as a Prophet. He claims that Gaylyn Bonjour was supposed to anoint him in order to better prepare him to meet with LCG HQ leaders. However, Thiel claims, that Gaylyn Bonjour unexpectedly muttered some words to the effect of asking God to grant Bob Thiel a double portion of Holy Spirit. What most men would dismiss as a bunch of words said somewhat unexpectedly, Bob Thiel has chosen to look to these unexpected words of Bonjour's as a sign from God that Bob Thiel has been appointed by God as a Prophet.

It is not madness but a bid for authority among those he seeks to lure under his influence and control.

Of course I regard his belief that he has been specially chosen by God as a Prophet to be completely absurd. Most will see right through his blunt seizure of power for himself. But I fear for anyone who choose to support him. They are pursuing a futile path. 

How False Prophet Bob Thiel Rained on LCG's Parade

I have finally found one good thing out of Bob Thiel break with LCG. Just before this scandal broke LCG held a celebration commemorating the founding of the Global Church of God in 1992 and Meredith's ordination in 1952.

This past weekend, we had a very positive series of events to celebrate the 20th Anniversary of the Global/Living Church of God and Mr. Meredith’s 60th year as an Evangelist in the Church of God. More than 550 brethren heard Mr. Meredith’s message on the Sabbath and several hundred attended Bible studies by Mr. Ames and Dr. Winnail.

This past weekend the Charlotte, NC congregation hosted an event celebrating 20 years since the Global/Living Church of God was started under the leadership of Dr. Roderick Meredith. Five hundred and fifty-one brethren came together at the Renaissance Charlotte Suites Hotel to enjoy a weekend of fun, fellowship, and both physical and spiritual food....

The church service in the afternoon was highlighted by the presentation of a Baccarat crystal eagle to Dr. Meredith in recognition of his 60 faithful years of service to God’s brethren as an evangelist. Dr. Meredith then capped off the service with a strong sermon entitled “Who We Are and Where We Are Headed.”

This pack of liars and deceivers deserved to have their celebration spoiled by having their most prominent blogger on the Internet break with them and try to create his own blasted COG cult.

False Prophet Bob Thiel Incorrectly Identifies RCM's Article as HWA's

I was just looking through Bob Thiel, the false prophet's homepage and I saw this link in the People section.

True Womanhood: A Lost Cause? Is there still a place for being feminine? Here is an article from Herbert Armstrong. 

 If you look at the link you will see that the author is not identified in that page. But it is stated that the article was published in the November 1965 Plain Truth.

So I took a look there and on page 17 (PDF p. 19) the article is there and it is clearly stated that the author of the article is Roderick C. Meredith.

Why is the fact that he wrote this article not stated here?

Now before we leap to conclusions it needs to be stated that I have seen this article online before at Pabco's Home Page, a COG member's web site affiliated with Hulme's group, and it also did not identify who was the author.

And curiously if you look at how the two articles are formatted the words are positioned in exactly the same way.

So did Bob Thiel acquire this article from Pabco's Home Page?

I don't know. But the words are indeed arranged in the same way.  

And regarding the article itself let me state that I have read it and it is dreadful. I recall how J in the old Shadows of WCG blog wrote about it and said even though he is a man he found Meredith's writing astoundingly lacking and tends to view women far too simply to be taken seriously. Also I have read with horror how old WCG very often failed their women, from forcing them to not wear makeup, from interfering with their relationships with family, spouses and children, the anti-medicine superstition, divorce and remarriage (until 1974), etc. And from what I've learned Roderick C. Meredith played a very important and pivotal role in causing old WCG to view women as simply an extension of their fathers and husbands. His article represents what was wrong with WCG in how it treated women and we need to get away from attitudes such as that.

Bob Thiel Now Pathetic One Man Show

Bob Thiel's departure from LCG breaks everything he claimed to believe. He argued that LCG was the one true COG because it was one of the major COGs, because it had some WCG old time leaders in its leadership.

Bob Thiel continuously rubbished those who went out on their own and started up their own Armstrongite following. Most were extremely small and gained hardly any new members. He mocked them for being pathetically small and having hardly any presence on the Internet or in any other media.

Now he has done exactly what he had condemned in others. As far as I am concerned all the words he used to condemn other Armstrongite groups deserves to be thrown right back at him.

At least while Bob Thiel was with LCG one could pretend that he was humble because he was not asking for tithes for himself, and he was arguing on behalf of someone else. Now he has tossed away that pretense of respectability. He speaks for none but himself now. How long will it be before he starts pleading for tithes and offerings? He acts like a swindler.

I doubt he will get far. People will read his nonsensical writings but I think very few will take the leap and join him and help him to try and build up yet another Armstrongite organization. At present he lacks the resources to be anything but a one man show. He won't get far that way.

By his previous standards he has failed 'God's Church' by pompously assuming that only he could properly understand the Bible and insisting that only he fully understands 'the truth'. He has reduced 'God's work' from a group composed of 7000 members to just one man a few follow travelers. How can he asked to be followed? He was not even ordained as a minister by anyone.

Bob Thiel has only proved once again that Armstrongism is but a heretical dead end that leads to nowhere productive. May all flee from the religious confusion of Armstrongism.

How Bob Thiel 'Proved' LCG is the True Church (and that he is not)

Bob Thiel has done exactly what he has long condemned every other COG of doing, refusing to 'see' that God is working with LCG led by Roderick Meredith and thus unnecessarily dividing Armstrongites among themselves.

No doubt he will try to obscure, minimize and essentially whitewash his previous allegiance with LCG. Therefore it is necessary to state now that in times past the whole point of his blog was to persuade people to join LCG.

Practically every article, every post of his called for people to join LCG, that it was where God was working among humanity.

He wrote several articles detailing distinctive features of various COGs. These articles all concluded that they failed to fulfill the aims of God compared to LCG and therefore they are not to be followed and one God is working through LCG.

One argument he used is that the true Church of God should be growing greatly. Having many converts is fruit revealing where God is working now.

If one assumes this then one would have to assume that the true COG would have to be one of the more larger ones.

Because he had LCG behind him I was much more inclined to listen to him when I looked for information about the COGs in mid-2000 and agree with his assertion that LCG is the true COG.

LCG was one of the big three (this was before COGAWA started) so it seemed quite reasonable to me that the true COG had to be one of them.

I rejected PCG. Their doctrines about the Little Book seemed too strange to me. It was quite apparent to me that they had changed things a bit, added new ideas that seemed quite strange to my reading of Armstrongism, then based on LCG's writings, Bob Thiel's writings and whatever I could read from HWA. Also I heard about how PCG forced members to have no contact with former WCG members. That disgusted me so I decided PCG was no good and I rejected them.

Then there was UCG. They were by far larger than LCG or PCG. But Bob Thiel criticized their use of voting which was contrary to HWA's teaching of one man rule by divine right. Then I looked up HWA's writings and indeed he was most scornful of voting and ruled without any sort of democratic check and balance upon him. (I excused him acting this way because I assumed he was an extraordinarily good man and therefore this meant it was good that it was like that. I know better now.) Bob Thiel noted in his writings that LCG faithfully retained HWA's method of government and therefore was more loyal to HWA's example. This argument seemed persuasive to me.

Also Bob Thiel boasted that, although LCG did not even have half as many members as UCG, they were much more engaged in witnessing to the world about 'the truth' then UCG. And this proves that LCG is the true COG. This seemed persuasive to me.

I came to LCG through their TV show, Tomorrow's World, and PCG also had a TV show on TV. (Thankfully they went off the air because of the money PCG had to pay WCG for the copyright for HWA's writings.) I did not notice UCG doing any proclaiming of the word where I lived.

So I chose LCG. I chose to align myself with LCG and concluded that, yes, God is working through this one church, composed of about 7,000 members, more than any other group on planet Earth.

Than in late 2008 I had to admit that HWA was a false prophet and that God was not working through him or any of the Armstrongite churches. I had to renounce LCG and Armstrongism. Bob Thiel and LCG's long, convoluted explanations justifying their belief that God only works through them, their 'church history' I discovered was nonsense, practically all of it plagiarized (stolen!) from other sources, mainly Adventist.

I wish Bob Thiel concluded that Meredith was not worthy of his allegiance sooner. He would have saved me and many others a lot of trouble.

If I knew he was an independent leader as he is now I never would have taken him seriously. Any idiot can post whatever crazy thing he or she likes. At least now that he has decided to become independent he can't lure anyone into LCG, he tries to lure people to support Bob Thiel. I think it will be very difficult for him to attract and maintain members. His splinter group certainly won't be able to compete against the major COGs.

While with LCG he always boasted that LCG was more successful in spreading the word of Armstrongism than any other COG. It will be impossible for him to dent LCG's numbers or media presence. I don't say this out of any affection for LCG, but merely as a statement of fact. No doubt Bob Thiel will change his tune and say he is doing greater work per capita than any COG, but for those of us who recall what he said before in support of LCG his pompous words to support himself are but an offensive and polluting noise.