Sunday, December 11, 2016

HWA "Perceived" that Cheops is Job

Here is one intriguing comment from a 2007 Ambassador Watch post mentions the following intriguing line written by Herman Hoeh back in 1964.
And how can we forget Hoeh's "Who Built the Great Pyramid's- He says at the end of his article "As Mr. Armstrong perceived , Job is Cheops".
Just take a look at the references Hoeh uses and check em out. Talk about rewriting and ludicrous fabrication!,
The quote is essentially correct and may be seen below. Although the precise wording is different.
A clue to the answer is found in Egyptian records. Cheops has another name -- Saaru of Shaaru (Petrie's "History of Egypt", vol. I, p. 37). Saaru is another name "for the inhabitants of Mt. Seir" (Rawlinson's "History of Egypt", ch. 22). Khufu, then, was a foreign King whose domain extended from Mt. Seir to Lower Egypt during and after the time of Joseph. Petra is in Mount Seir. Dr. Meredith and I visited, in 1957, the domain of Cheops, both in Egypt and in Mt. Seir. 
Mt. Seir was famous in history as the "Land of Uz" (Vol. III of "Clarke's Commentary", preface to Book of Job). Uz was a descendant of Seir the Horite (Gen. 36:28). The Arabs preserve a corrupt record of Cheops of Mt. Seir or of the Land of Uz. They call him the "wizard of Oz."  
Now what individual who dwelled in Uz was arrogant, repented of his sin and wrote a Sacred Book? 
None other than JOB!  
And the Sacred Book is the Book of Job!  
Job -- AS MR. ARMSTRONG LONG AGO PERCEIVED -- could be none other than the Cheops who built the Great Pyramid! The ancient Greeks called Job "Cheops" -- pronouncing the letters "ch" almost as if they were an "h." We call Job "Hiob" in German -- and we pronounce the final "b" as if it were a "p" much as the Greeks did. Plainly, Cheops is but an altered pronunciation of Job! (Herman Hoeh, Who Built the Great Pyramid?, Plain Truth, May 1964.)
The highlighted sentence is the important part of the article. HWA (incorrectly) perceived that the Great Pyramid was built by the biblical Job and since he was the leader those immediately under him went along with that ridiculous idea. That idea was quite common within Pyramidology. HWA probably started dabbling with that strand of nonsense as early as the 1930s.

It is complete nonsense to say that Job and Cheops were the same man. That claim is wildly wrong.


  1. 1) Trust me a self taught person like HWA cannot come up with ideas like this on his own, so he perceived nothing but more likely recieved.
    2) HWA's perception was written into the narrative by a lackey pushing his own ideas and theories.
    3) They were not Hoeh's own ideas either. And I would suggest looking at groups claiming to be the builders of the European cathedrals in a spiritual sense for the original idea on the building of such monumental edifices.


  2. Cheops, Eob, Job. This is yet another thing a young WCG boy would get mocked for if he foolishly shared it in junior high school history class. That wheat was the perfect food, as compared to milk being the most nearly perfect food, didn't go over too well in health class either. But the very worst was the idea that Hitler was still alive in Argentina. The type of earned persecution one got as a result of WCG weirdness was nothing like the persecution Jesus forecast for His followers.

    I blame Hislop. Armstrongism derived all of its research methodology from his slop!


  3. It is clear to us who have read the writings of G. G. Rupert that Herbert Armstrong got ALL of his basic inspiration from G. G. Rupert and, in the case of The Law of God, plagiarized it nearly word for word for the Feast booklet, except for the Last Great Day. He probably found that in the Central Library in Portland, Oregon after his psychotic break and obsessed on it. He likely focused on other sources which backed up and supported the ideas of G. G. Rupert. It should be noted that G. G. Rupert's son, H. W. Rupert carried on a scant few years after his father died and it seems plausible that Herbert Armstrong took 'W' for his middle initial to match the middle initial of Rupert's son.

    People like to completely ignore the main useful reference which absolutely nails the stupidity of Herbert Armstrong: Kooks: A Guide to the Outer Limits of Human Belief (2nd Edition) by Donna Kossy, where she specifically mentions Herbert Armstrong as a kook in her history of British Israelism. It should also be noted among the other stupid hypotheses she documents is pyramidology.

    Everything that Herbert Armstrong believed and taught is objectively laughably stupid, mental and moronic.

  4. Any chance of getting the GG Rupert materials up on the Painful Truth or British Israel Refuted sites, Mikey?


    1. Byker Bob, I have collected all but one of the G. G. Rupert materials and have had it in mind to make them all flipping books on

      Sadly, I've been busy with any number of other things and the postings have had to be postponed.

      I have asked several people though to help me find his booklet on the Law of God which contains the complete outline of he holydays. Sadly, I had the .pdf and intended to download it. When I got to it later, I could not find it again.

      If anyone can find that .pdf, please let me know and if you can get it to me, I will make it a priority to post it as a flipping book.

  5. I have no quarrel with those exposing strange ideas, although I occassionally enjoy a bit of alternative, forgotten, tucked away history myself.

    I only find that in attempts to isolate HWA ('s ideas) from larger society expose s sometimes look a bit like the 2250 professor accidentally bumping into a 1980's Michael Jackson video and concluding that Jackson for sure must have been mentally deranged.

    Even if MJ's mental stability would be under investigation, I personally feel more comfortable with looking at the technique and larger society in which MJ functioned and in fact was receptive to the Thriller video, the (worldwide) popularity of the Thriller video. And the impact it had at the time in being the first video clip ever.

    Focussing on HWA alone should not obscure the fact that even or may just today millions of americans surf the internet to find things relating to the year 2000, the Bush family, Egypts pyramids and secret vaults.

    But hey, I know, this is our little niche and it is dangerous to be the one sane person in the Cuckoo's nest. Better play along.


  6. There are those who think of Armstrongism just a collection of harmless, though kook, beliefs which have no other impact than intellectual curiosity. While "Ambassador Watch" provided a great deal of information about the venue, the approach was an academic one, rather devoid of the viscera and disengaged from palpable relevance. The data, though, divulges that it is far more Draconian in its impact than people far removed from the oppression and harm that has caused and is causing now.

    We can take just one example of how British Israelism turned into tragedy for one family. The people who are emotionally detached from the pedophilia, extortion, PTSD causing oppression and neglect, the stalking, fondling of teens, rape, incest, destruction of families and lies -- particularly those with a psychopathic bent who see these things as amusing anecdotes -- hold that the evils still being perpetrated today by the Armstrongist 1% is just harmless infotainment -- curious relics, nothing more. They have no real skin in the game and have no compassion for the continued suffering and humiliation at the hands of oppressors.

    In fact, they find it sport to engage in attacking and flaming those who would attempt to mitigate the wicked evil of Armstrongism, pushing the limits of those on these types of blogs with nonsensical attacks just to see if they can carry out their secret agendas with completely irrelevant observations and speculations which often have no basis in facts.

    And they wonder why, suddenly, the moderators of the blogs on which they post don't approve their comments and block their ids.

    They know, of course. They know, just like wolves know that they are predators. They, in effect, pretend to be sheep while playing with lives and have a good laugh at how well they've succeeded in ruining other people's credibility.

    Eventually, people catch on and they are forced to move on to greener pastures, but, in the meantime, ain't we got fun.

    And one more thing: Such people aren't particularly sane -- there's a section for them in the DSM-5 and they are well described in "Without Conscience" by Dr. Robert Hare, "Snakes in Suits" by Dr. Robert Hare and Dr. Paul Babiak and we are given a lot of good advice in dealing with them in Dr. Phil's "Life Code".

    A word to the wise (once in awhile) should be sufficient.

  7. And.... there are those that negate the fact that some spend more time in the venue than the "self appointed" liberators. And especially negate the fact that there are facebookpages and websites around with TENS of thousands of members consisting of former members of wcg who have ALL taken a different path but still discuss and reminisce the good times they spent in said venue.

    It does in no way diminish the pain and hurt that a lot of people feel. But they are in NO measure and not by any standard the majority.

    As a matter of fact, the effectiveness of the those that are truly hurt is greatly diminished by the absurd claim they speak for the majority and their know it all attitude.

    The scientific method of the likes of Ambassador Watch will be greatly missed as the ineffective crowd will fill the gap.


  8. And yes Armstrongism was pretty harmless compared to other well known systems that sent 60.000 soldiers to die in Vietnam or bomb 650.000 Iraqis to smithereens.


  9. BTW.

    I like the article in the link about BI.

    BI brought prosperity to Africa and until last year the inheritors of said prize were rigging the Gold prize from London in order to keep your family warm and fuzzy as compared to the unlucky part of humanity.

    We'll see what the impending "times of the gentiles" will work out for your family. So far the Chinese have put a lot of American workers out of work so it seems.

    Speaking about Asians.
    Did it occur to you that BI in Prophecy speaks about a time that the EAST Coast cities of the USA will be nuked by the Germans and America will be overrun by the Hun.

    This is blatant racism rooted in the 1940's American belief that Japanese were thick glassed, big teethed, stupid folk, incapable of an attack on the mighty fleet in Pearl Harbor.

    (for those interested I have the 1940 cartoons with American depictions of Japanese available upon request.)

    Well the Japanese set that record straight and they found their oilwells for expansion elsewhere.

    To me it is of significance that HWA let the corporate jet fly to Quatar with diplomats of the most outstanding Japanese family networks and ruling class.

    In a way he was correcting BI in prophecy by soothing the enemy on the West Coast, so omitted in the original version.


  10. It's the first time I noticed that Eric King was posting here....

  11. Quite awhile ago, I was introduced to a brilliant young man who had grown up as the son of a single parent who had never married and her lover turned out to be a member in a nearby church area in the WCG. This young man had won national recognition for his brilliance. Yet, due to circumstances because he was a child of a single parent in the WCG, he was thrown into detention in juvenile hall and was raped by the other boys. He was only there for a week and was released. In an ensuing court battle, a single man in the WCG (not related to the boy) gained custody of him. The man became a mentor and in due time, they both moved to Pasadena where the young man was admitted and attended Ambassador College.

    At Ambassador College in Pasadena, this brilliant young man partly earned his way performing janitorial work. During his work shift, he had occasion to clean out 'Doctor' Herman Hoeh's office, where he found, to his shock and amazement, what we refer to now as 'kiddie porn' -- young boys in sexual poses. This is the kind of pornography that earns the possessor a jail / prison term and these days results in the man becoming a registered sex offender.

    It turns out that there were also separate reports about Hoeh's involvement with boy prostitutes in Thailand.

    It seems that this was something of an open secret, but because Hoeh was something of a corporate shill, managing to create various fictions to support his corporate masters -- such as declaring that Herbert Armstrong was an apostle -- his activities were covered up and he remained an evangelist in good standing. He even managed to survive the Tkaches and switched... gears to support them as the need arose.

    I read his compendiums long ago, but I do sort of remember these particular passages cited here. What one needs to remember is that he wrote what he did to support his corporate masters and carefully tailored his works of fiction to make such as Herbert Armstrong look good. He was quite flexible.

    It is also fairly well known that Herbert Armstrong himself toyed with pyramidology at one point in time, but it did not suit his purposes anywhere as well as the fiction of British Israelism.

  12. Black Ops,

    You seem to take a keen interest in matters of a psychological nature.

    I have always wondered how in nearly every Conspiracy Theory in the Western World featuring the elites, the accusation of "child abuse" is a recurring universality.

    It goes for all secular conspiracy theories with a recent strike at a pizza parlor as an example but there are dozens for each western nation.

    To me personally it is not a logical thing that elites with the power to strike millions or affect the finances of billions would descend into a pizza parlor or other office to commit such crimes (by recent standards).

    Perhaps one day I will investigate if such accusations are a "christian" thing, or that maybe in far away asian or african nations same accusations are propelled toward their local elite.

    I might just discuss this topic once with an amazon tribe. But I guess I must be careful with their poisonous arrows if this proves to be a subject of taboo in their societies also.

    Just curious on a secular level.


  13. Well, what do you know. Just 15 hours after my remark on US - Japanese relations president Putin is making headlines complaining about the absence of a peace treaty between Japan and Russia.

    It seems we are moving into a different phase from the sons of the Japanese elites flying in the GII to Africa, The Gulf States and South America to talk trade (the unseen hand) to a world where the West Coast is more exposed.


  14. BOM...we knew about Hoeh's boy porn collection in Pasadena. Other evangelists were in to porn too, straight porn